Multiple Issues

[dmanning]

Hi everyone i need some advise.
I have made some changes recently and im having trouble deducing cause and effect.

Recently I have had made the following changes.

1.Changed from 48 watt Power Compact to 90 watt LED. (phased the bright light in over a 5 day period)

2.Cleaned my skimmer caused it to stop skimming for 4days (now skimming again)

3.Did a 20% water change last week to reduce nitrates, and purchased some macro algae and added a 24/7 light to the sump.

The results are that

1.my 2 acans have bleached almost entirely white, and one is half dead by my reconing. (to much light? or nitrates still too high?)

2.All my leathers, and duncan are happy as can be , but my blastomusa and gornopia are shying away from the light despite being near the bottom of the tank.

3.My tank is also being overrun by cyano. its all over the substrate and i need to clean the glass every 2 days to keep it clean. i have tryed to syphon it but that just makes it grow back twice as fast.

4.And One of my clown fish has gone MIA he has simply vanished!

Tank water stats are are as follows:-

Amonia: 0
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 25ppm (were almost 40 before i did a series of 4 water changes 10% every 2 days, followed by a 20%)
Phosphates: 0
Alkalinity: 9
Calcium: 460ppm
Salinity / Specific Gravity: 1.025
Magnesuim: NA
PH: 8.3


Please can anyone help me with my issues.

[shona]

how long has the tank been set up?

was the saltwater you used for the waterchange from a new location/supplier?

[dmanning]

The tank has been running for almost 15 weeks.

And I have been making up my own saltwater from RO water and artificial salt. Same brand as at the begining.

Oh and i had to remove one of the acros today... it was most definitetly dead. Smelt real bad once i removed it from the tank.

[CarsonF]

How's the temp going?

[CheezotheClown]

Did the spike in nitrates coincide with the missing clown?

Seems as though you have made a number of changes perhaps disrupting the balance.

You also have not stated the size of your system.

[rossco]

I lost a couple of things recently in similar circumstances. My nitrates were at 10- 15ppm before fortnightly water changes.
One hot day was enough to tip the balance although the tank never got above 30, this did not help.
I have been trying to work it out and it seems to be one of two things or maybe a combination.
First is dosing of damprid to increase calcium levels. within minutes of dosing the corals looked crook.
My second guess is the macro not being settled and giving off toxins while it was getting hold.
I shut off the sump and stoped dosing. Lots of regular water changes and things are starting to come back. The tank has a definate smell now from die off.
Good luck.

[shona]

yeah good point, whats the highest the tank temp has gotten lately?

interesting this article was posted recently, similar issues to yours (cyano, bleaching)

http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/ree ... allin.html

His problem turned out to be a failed RO membrane, also mentions a few other things he suspected (contamination from foreign objects, etc)

Your tank is fairly new, the cyano could just be part of the tank establishing, or could be from the high nitrates

[dmanning]

The temp on cool days is around 26- 27. But on hot days (33-34 outside temp) the tank gets up to 30. But only for say 4 hours, it then drops back to 28 pretty fast once evening approaches.

The tank size is 110L and the sump is 20 litters.

I have just installed a UV steryliser in line with the return pump to kill off some of the bacteria, and try to stop the spread of the Cyano. Is this a good or bad idea?

In regards to the nitrates it wasnt so much of a spike as a steady rapid increase over a 2 week period.
And the clown disapearance was only 2 days ago. Maybe he ate some of the dying acro and died, then the worms took him???

A few hours ago I also noticed 2 patches of what looks like baby zoanthids. about 30-50 per patch. and 2 new heads on my Duncan. So the tank is kinda split, with half my stock loving the conditions and the other half dying as a result of the conditions.....

[Tone]

Let's start at the beginning

At 15 weeks, the tank has barely cycled and the bacterial equilibrium are a long way from established ... don't consider sps corals for at least 6 months, especially as you are mixing your own water.

Leaving aside that cyno can grow in ULN displays, given the youth of this tank cyno is an indication that your water parameters are not quite as good as it should be. The UV steriliser will do nothing to contain the cyno. It would be close to useless for anything in a display tank ... breeding and propagation tanks are a different story.

PO4 + extra light = cyno. Increase water flow to keep nutrients in suspension to be skimmed out.

Acans don't thrive in high light (PAR) environments whereas the Duncan and certain zoanthids do prefer a bit more light.

Clowns don't eat acro ... alive or dead ... so it probably died through a stress related symptom. The bacteria in the tank are most likely the principal reducers of the dead fish.

The acro most likely died as a result of bacterial imbalance, the increased nitrate, and high water temperature. 30C will stress out the coral and kick-start its decline. High temps also reduce oxygen concentration in the water and that will also contribute to the death of livestock.

Tone

[JacksonLee]

Tone, what does ULN stand for?

[rossco]

Ultra low nutrients?

[dmanning]

Ok well i got home from work today and my remaining acro is starting to get some orange colour back and the cyano isnt all over the glass.
It looks like the UV filter has stopped the free floating cyano from getting into the water and attaching directly to the glass. Its still growing on the sand bed but thats to be expected, its like a carpet there.
As long as i dont have to clean the glass every day

Tone, I never intended on having sps in a nano tank, i m not sure if any one have ever gotten this to work for an extended period of time but i dont have the money to risk it. I was intending on sticking with LPS and softies. This is my first tank and i am just trying to make sure i dont kill everything.

Also you brought up another interesting factor. How long does it take for a tank to be established and then once established how long before old tank syndrome kicks in? (what is the golden window?)

I also mentioned the clown eating the acro as a possible cause of death because i saw him eating it. My 1inch Blue tang and other fish are all fine. I figured if anything were to die it would be the baby blue tang but he is fine. Cowardly but fine.

Any suggestions on what i should do now, just try to keep the nitrates down with regular water changes and wait till things balance out.
Or should i also by a small chiller? in case the temp is a contributing factor?

[chromus]

That tank is awful small for tangs.

You will likely have to find a new home for the tang in the short-medium term.

My tank is 160L and is still way too small.

I don't wanna add to your woes but you are asking for guidance as you obviously have the best interests of the tank and its inhabitants at heart.

[rossco]

Old tank syndrome will take several years from what I have read.
If you don't want sps why do you have acro in the first place?
Are you sure your clown was eating the acro? My clarkii is great at headbutting and moving stuff with her mouth. She has destroyed what's left of my zoa colony because it is fouling the water near her.
That blue tang is putting out a hell of a lot of waste and I would be doing water changes every couple of days until you isolate the cause. Try taking photos and keeping a log.

[dmanning]

Sorry all I had a brain meltdown since the begining of this tread, not acro... acan i have 2 acan that are bleaching and one has died... my bad i have no SPS in my tank....sorry damn im a tard

Yes I have plans for a 400L + system mid next year.

Currently with only a 1 inch tang and a 1 inch clown, im sure a 110 L system can support these for another 6 months.

I just checked my nitrates again and they are sitting at over 40ppm again.
Thats a 20 ppm increase in just 5 days.

My macro algae in the sump has grown considerably doubled in size in only 2 weeks.

[rossco]

Dilution will fix the nitrates short term. 40ppm is way too high. Try doing a few liters of water change per day or morning and night.
What does your tank smell like?

[dmanning]

It smells fine, practically no smell at all. i just need to work out where all these nitrates are coming from.

[chromus]

The large amount of Nori etc you feed you Tang could be a contributing factor?
As previously stated Tangs can be nitrate machines.

Do you have any mechanical filtration (canister filter/sponge filter)? These are known to hold onto stuff that then breaks down into nitrates.

Have you cleaned the substrate/LR recently?
Same as cannister filters you could have stuff breaking down in the nooks and crannys and this will be a source of nitrates.

[rossco]

It could be die off. That's why I asked about the smell. Missing fish and dead coral will do it.
Read some of the article links in the reefpeadia for a long term solution.
That tang will crap out heaps and add to the bioload in a big way. I have two that were one inch and are now four inches after six months. I can't catch the damn things.

[Rusty1]

Tone is pretty spot on the money. The cyno will pass if you A have good water flow and B maintain a good level of excess nutrients in the water.
40ppm is way to high. They are most likely coming from the excess food/waste from the fish trapped in the substrate ( I will take a stab and say you have a very course substrate?) Increasing flow will help.

The 1 think I noticed that has been touched on here is the heat. This IMO is 1 of the 2 major issues. While you say it only gets up to 30 for 4 hours it is the stability that can cause the issues. Our reefs tend to have more stable temperatures with no more than 1 or 2 degree of vatiations max. Yours is probably getting around 4 or 5. Not good for the corals and they will bleach under those circumstances.
You only have a small tank so water stability is harder to maintain. If you wish to be successful you need to:
1. Water changes and lots of them
2. Ensure adequate flow
3. Get a chiller
4. More water changes.

[dmanning]

Thanks Rusty.

I'm preety sure I have good water flow around 4500LPh total in a 110L tank . And I have a farly fine substrate, 2-3mm coral sand.
Because of the high flow the live rock and sand has little detritus in it , most detritus is suspended and if not caught by the skimmer settles in the sump. I siphon the sump once a week with the water change.

I have no filter other than my sump and protein skimmer.

So I think you are right on the temp swings. On cool days the temp will vary from about 25 at night and 27 during the day.
But on hot days it varies from 25 at night to 30 during the day.

So the plan is untill i can find a small and reasonably priced chiller i will put a fan over the sump.
I will do a 10% water change every day for the next 10 days and I will make sure im not over feading my fish.

If this fails I'll be back to get some more knowledge.
Thanks for all the help guys i will let you know how it goes.

[SHEPS]

Hey I am new and have lots of mistakes in the last 6 months but for all it's worth.

1/ Get a Chiller, you don't want water temp moving by several degrees in the ocean it takes months to move 1 degree not hours,

2/ Buy some ChemiCleanse and kill off the cyan, UV light will do nought,

3/ Keep the water changes going every 3 -4 days 5% until you have your nitrites under control,

4/ Buy a skimmer will help remove excess nutrients.

Good Luck,
Shep

[rossco]

Steer clear of additives to control cyano. Low nutrients is best using the methods described above.

[Tone]

My macro algae in the sump has grown considerably doubled in size in only 2 weeks.

Nutrient feeds the macro

No nutrient is not a good thing unless you are tuned into specialist coral feeding. If you can keep PO4 under 0.05ppm you will be doing great.

Rather than blowing the fan over the sump, blow it over the tank. The tank probably has a higher water surface area and you don't want to get the cabinet all gummed up with moisture.

Good luck

[dmanning]

Thanks Tone,

the cabinet already has an extractor fan on it so moisture wont be a problem.

I will be happy if i can get the nitrates under 10ppm

[rossco]

You will probably find they will linger for a while before the water changes start to last. That's what happened to me anyway. You do a water change and a day later the readings are back up again. If you keep at it they will come down to 10ppm in a week or so. Good luck.

[dmanning]

Well the fan over the sump has solved the temp issues, but has resulted in almost 1 litre of evaporation per day. This is way up from the usual 200ml per day.

But the temp says between 25 and 26 all the time now.
And the cyano is starting to retreat. I think the temp might have been the key. The large swings stressed the corals causing them to die decompose and produce nitrates. This feed the cyano and caused further stress to the corals.

I have also done my first 20% water change, I will do an aditional 10% water change every day for 7 days untill I can get my nitrates under 10ppm. Then I will switch to 10% water change weekly.

Oh and the water change also improved the productivity of the skimmer, there may have been some oils in the water preventing the skimmer from forming bubbles.

[rossco]

Sounds all good. I go through 1.5 liters minimum per day. More evap equals more kalk so that's fine with me.

[Lukey]

Yeah man my tank is at about double size of yours, but on a warm day i'll put through easily 3L of evaporation...

[n0rk]

On a system the same volume I go through about 5-6 a day. So, 1.5 is bugger all realistically.