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Cryptocaryon (Marine Ich) treatment journal -completed-

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Cryptocaryon (Marine Ich) treatment journal -completed-

Postby kit » Wed 23 May, 2012 11:04 pm

Hi Guys,

Seeing as questions about white spot come up all the time, I have decided to record a journal of how I am attempting to treat my tank.
I have no idea if my attempt will succeed but it may be useful for those who encounter the same problems later on.

Background:
- 8 week old Aqua One 850 tank
- 20kg live rock
- Fish: a pair of B&W Occelaris Clowns, a single Zebra Goby.

The Clowns were purchased from a forum member and are around 1 year old, they were introduced at week 5 (a bit earlier than planned, but due to a quarantine tank issue, they were introduced early).
The Zebra Goby was introduced at week 7. It was quarantined for only 5 days, once again I intended to quarantine it for 2 weeks but due to an issue with the quarantine tank, I decided to introduce it to the display tank early.

At this stage, I believe the Zebra was the one who introduced the parasite.

Equipment used:
- Hospital tank: Aqua One AR380 All in one (34L) - a lot smaller than I would have liked but it will have to do for now; may change to a larger tank later.
- Heater
- Digital Thermometer
- 3 pieces PVC tubes, tied together into a triangle for easy removal
- Refractometer
- API pH test kit
- Sodium Carbonate, made by getting Bicarb Soda, and baking it for 30mins at 180 degrees C


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Quick Reference - Tips for treating with Hyposalinity (Updated post Hyposalinity treatment)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
After going through the Hyposalinity process, here are a few tips that I've picked up along the way:

- Treat fish at Hyposalinity for a minimum of 6 weeks (the longer the better)

- Leave the Display Tank fishless for a minimum of 8 weeks (the longer the better)

- When setting up the Hospital tank, use water from the Display tank. This means fish don't need to be acclimatised when transferring from the DT

- Due to the exact levels of salinity required for treatment, always use a calibrated refractometer for measuring salinity.

- Lower salinity slowly over a number of days (I did it over 5 days)

- Use a fine mesh filter sock in the filtration system to minimise floating waste in the HT, clean this filter sock daily

- Water parameters are hard to maintain at Hyposalinity, so while daily water changes aren't always necessary, siphon out any waste on the bottom of the tank each day. (My water change regime involved siphoning out waste daily and then replenishing the removed water every 3rd day)

- For the first two weeks, monitor water parameters closely, check ammonia levels regularly. A handy tool for this is the Seachem Ammonia Alert device.

- Pre dilute your water in drums for water changes; if using NSW, diluting it 1:4 will give you an approximate salinity level required for Hyposalinity treatment; after diluting 1:4, check with refractometer and fine tune. Also ensure you buffer this water to pH 8.4

- Ideally use RO/DI water for hyposalinity water preparation, but this is not necessary. I ended up using conditioned tap water for most of my treatment.

- Get into a routine and the time required daily will be minimal. On average, I spent less than 10minutes per day treating my fish in the HT

- It will be very difficult to maintain pH in the HT at hyposalinity; everytime I tested my HT water, the pH level was around 7.8. This didn't bother my fish at all; although other fish may be more sensitive to this.

- After the treatment period, raise salinity slowly; over at least a week (although my fish were fine, I believe I did raise salinity quicker than I should have). Raising salinity is most easily done by preparing high salinity water with marine salt. NSW can be used, but towards the end, larger and larger water changes are required.

- Another method for raising salinity is to not use lids on the HT, allow the water to evaporate, and replenish with water at normal salinity levels.
--------------------------------------------------------------



Timeline

21/05/2012: I come home to find the female clown and Zebra goby covered in white dots. The Zebra was flicking itself onto the substrate at times and was obviously irritated. I was shocked how severe the infestation looked and how quickly it appeared (it appeared overnight). The male clown appeared unaffected.

Here is an image of the female clown the evening I discovered the infestation:
Image

22/05/2012: I read up on the alternative treatments and decided to:
- Remove all fish from the main tank and place in a hospital tank
- Run Hypo salinity in the hospital tank
- Keep main tank running for the duration of the treatment (for a minimum for 6 weeks) to rid the main tank of the parasite.

My main reference was this site: http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/f15 ... ess-27155/

A very helpful forum member has offered to give me some RO water as I don't have an RO filter. Due to something going wrong at work, I end up working back late and don't make it to collect the RO water.

I come home and work into the wee hours of the morning catching the fish and moving them into the hospital tank. The clowns were relatively easy to catch, the Zebra was not, always digging itself into the substrate. After a long time and a lot of frustration, I decide to tear down the tank and remove as much live rock as needed to catch the fish.
I finally get the Zebra into the hospital tank.

The hospital tank was simply prepared by putting mature filter media from the main tank into the Aqua One overhead filter; I then proceeded to fill the hospital tank with water from the main tank, while keeping the heater running. This meant that I didn't need to acclimatise the fish; simply catch and place into the hospital tank.
I also put a fine mesh filter sock over the trickle feed of the filter to catch as much debris as possible. This will aid in keeping the tank clean.

With no RO water, I decide to leave the fish in normal salinity water over night.

The hospital tank:
Image

The torn down main tank:
Image


23/05/12:
Another late night at work so I'm once again unable to collect the RO water. I come home and see that the spots on the Zebra and Female clown have reduced significantly (is this normal?)
The male clown still appears unaffected. The fish are fed and they have a great appetite.

I am very keen to make a move on the hypo treatment ASAP so make a decision to use tap water with water conditioner to start the process. I used some water filtered through a Brita water filter, I doubt it will help much, but better than raw tap water I guess. Hopefully I don't have another late night at work tomorrow and can get some RO water.

After feeding the fish, cleaning the filter sock, and siphoning out some water to clean as much waste as possible, I add about 20% of the tank in treated tap water; I match the pH with the Sodium Carbonate. Go EASY on the Sodium Carbonate, you only need a touch to adjust the pH. I added what I thought was a small amount, only to blow the pH off the charts! :roflmao: I wasted a lot of pH testing solution getting right, but at least now I know :)

Salinity before: 1.027
Salinity after: 1.024

Off to shower and bed..
Last edited by kit on Wed 13 Feb, 2013 10:37 am, edited 9 times in total.
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Re: My white spot treatment journal

Postby chromus » Wed 23 May, 2012 11:27 pm

Any chance of more pics, I get the niggling feeling this may not be CryptoCaryon (WS/Ich) doesn't look right to me, an another couple of pics may save the fish if we work out it's a misdiagnosis.
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Re: My white spot treatment journal

Postby kit » Wed 23 May, 2012 11:45 pm

Really hard to get clear photos, but here are a couple taken a couple of minutes ago:
Image

Image

What do you think Chromus?

I'm about to add more fresh water in to complete the first dose, I'll hold off until you reply.

thanks!
kit
Last edited by kit on Sun 15 Jul, 2012 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My white spot treatment journal

Postby chromus » Wed 23 May, 2012 11:57 pm

Spoken to 3 others who all say WS.

What made me a little unsure was that the spots aren't as raised on the skin as I have seen previously and wanted to check it before you put the fish into a futile treatment.

Good luck. There is an excellent journal by Galleri3090 that you may want to read between water changes if you haven't already
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Re: My white spot treatment journal

Postby kit » Thu 24 May, 2012 12:04 am

Thanks for looking out for me. :cheers:

For those interested, I found galleri3090's journal here:

viewtopic.php?f=97&t=226917&start=0&hilit=whitespot
Last edited by kit on Thu 24 May, 2012 12:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My white spot treatment journal

Postby chromus » Thu 24 May, 2012 12:07 am

The pics aren't great, and short of seeing the fish in the flesh this is the most logical diagnosis.
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Re: My white spot treatment journal

Postby kit » Thu 24 May, 2012 11:51 pm

We added more freshwater during the day and evening and now SG is at 1.019
I hope to reach the target of 1.008 by tomorrow evening.

The white spots on the clown seem to be disappearing, there are still a lot but they seem to be much smaller and much less white. I haven't been able to see the zebra to make an assessment on his condition.
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Re: My white spot treatment journal

Postby chromus » Thu 24 May, 2012 11:56 pm

The hypo is usually a quick relief for the fish as the spots disappear in about 72hrs.

Keep and eye on things and try not to stress the stock and you should see an improvement soon.
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Re: My white spot treatment journal

Postby kit » Fri 25 May, 2012 12:11 am

Yeah, I try my best not to stress them out, unfortunately it's unavoidable as each night I have to take out the PVC tubes to siphon out the waste.
The fish look ok though, and their appetites are still great.
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Re: My white spot treatment journal

Postby chromus » Fri 25 May, 2012 12:14 am

Leave the tubes just do your best without taking them out.
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Re: My white spot treatment journal

Postby kit » Fri 25 May, 2012 10:14 pm

Dropping salinity is actually a lot harder than I thought it would be. I made about a 30% water change tonight, and salinity only dropped from 1.019 to 1.014.

I hope to be able to hit my target salinity tomorrow evening, but with a long day at work this may not be achieveable.

White spot has further subsided on the clown, and the dots are now quite faint.
I'm unable to see the Zebra to make an assessment.
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Re: My white spot treatment journal

Postby kit » Sun 27 May, 2012 1:59 am

The clown and zebra's condition this evening.

Image

Image

If it wasn't for the white spots, you could never tell they were sick.

Another 30% water change tonight and I have finally hit my target salinity of 1.009
Also tested for Ammonia and Nitrite for the first time since starting the treatment. Both ammonia and nitrite are 0; I didn't test for Nitrate.
Last edited by kit on Sun 15 Jul, 2012 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My white spot treatment journal

Postby dino » Sun 27 May, 2012 7:46 am

Your fish seems to be doing well.
Can I suggest leaving the DT fishless for 8-10 weeks. From my experience 6wks is not enough.
Whilst waiting - play around with the aquascaping to get it to your liking - hard to do once the fish are back in.
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Re: My white spot treatment journal

Postby chromus » Sun 27 May, 2012 10:32 am

:withyou: While in theory 6 weeks is long enough, no harm in playing safe, especially after all the work of treating properly.
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Re: My white spot treatment journal

Postby kit » Mon 28 May, 2012 10:56 am

Yep. I'm going to try and leave it for as long as possible; If I've gone 6 weeks, I'm sure 8 weeks won't be too much more.

I'm still concerned about treating 3 fish in only a 34L tank, but so far, they all seem reasonably happy: The clowns just swim around all the time, and and zebra stays in its PVC tube until feeding time.

Something I found really useful for quarantine / hospital tanks: fitting a filter sock on your filtration system somewhere.
I purchased a fine mesh filter sock from Guppies and put it over the trickle pipe on the Aqua One overhead filter. The sock catches a lot of fine waste that would otherwise just get circulated in the tank.

Each day I take the sock out and rinse it in mature water. I think this really helps with keeping the water clean.
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Re: My white spot treatment journal

Postby kit » Mon 28 May, 2012 10:35 pm

Now that I have reached the target salinity, I decided to pre mix my water to make my life easier with the daily water changes.

I did this:
- Took a 25L drum of RO water
- Emptied out approximately 6L (1/4 of the drum) into my main tank as top up
- Filled it up to the top with NSW

I had previously tested my drums of NSW, and the salinity was a tad high at 36ppt, so I knew if I diluted it 1:4 / 1:3 with RO water I would be close to 1.009.
Anyway, by luck or otherwise, my estimations were spot on, and I managed to get 1.009 water first go! :thumbsup:
This worked out well as my main tank was due for a top up anyway.

Testing the pH of this water, it was actually very close, a pH of 8.0. So I added some Sodium carbonate until it was 8.4, and now I have 25L of water ready for water changes. :)

I plan to monitor the water parameters of the hospital tank carefully and may eventually do water changes every 2 or 3 days.

My fish are progressing well, both the female clown and zebra goby now have no visible white spots. They are also active and eat very very well.
I am feeding them only once daily and sparingly, around 2 or 3 pinches of Spectrum pellets, just enough for them to finish all the pellets in 20 seconds or so.

Image

Image

Once I settle down to a routine, I will probably post fewer updates.

I'm almost 10% there... 5 days down, only 51 more to go....
Last edited by kit on Sun 15 Jul, 2012 5:39 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: My white spot treatment journal

Postby Alf D » Tue 29 May, 2012 7:32 am

Hang in there Kit, looks to be going well.
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Re: My white spot treatment journal

Postby kit » Tue 29 May, 2012 10:40 am

Thanks for the support Alf!
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Re: My white spot treatment journal

Postby kit » Tue 29 May, 2012 11:21 pm

6 days into treatment and I had my first incident tonight with the hospital tank.

As usual I fed the fish and then siphoned out the waste (around 10% of the water in the tank).
My intention was to not replace the water this evening and see how long I could go between water changes.

I tested the water and found a drop in pH and a spike in ammonia:

pH: 8.0
Ammonia: 0.25
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: did not test

I quickly added a dose of water conditioner, siphoned out more water (30% in total), removed, shook, rinsed the filter media in the mature water and then replaced, and then put a handful of new crushed coral on the base floor of the tank.

Now I am slowly replenishing the siphoned water so as to not cause a sharp temperature drop.

Honestly I doubt the new crushed coral will do anything, but perhaps over time it could grow some bacteria on it and help process waste; the pieces are large enough for me to easily siphon around it anyway.

It's interesting that previously during quarantine, I had similar ammonia spikes at a similar time frame (0.25 at 6-7 days), it is due to this reason that I introduced fish earlier than planned to my display tank.

Was this spike in ammonia due to me testing the water 1 hour after feeding? or is it just that after 6 days the filtration system is simply not keeping up?

Not sure what else I can do for now, and with 50 more days to go in treatment, this is not looking good.
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Re: My white spot treatment journal

Postby chromus » Wed 30 May, 2012 12:24 am

Dont forget if u are using ammolock or similar even the inert ammonia registers on the test even thow its harmless.
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Re: My white spot treatment journal

Postby kit » Wed 30 May, 2012 12:46 am

Yep, I will test again tomorrow evening (before and after feeding) to see what the levels are.

I'm using Aqua Star conditioner, a product I bought from AOA, it likely works in a similar fashion to Ammolock.
Last edited by kit on Fri 08 Jun, 2012 2:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My white spot treatment journal

Postby kit » Wed 30 May, 2012 11:23 pm

I came home this evening and tested the water again (Ammonia only); the test returned a reading of 0.25.

So again, I dosed with water conditioner, and this time did a 50% water change. Tomorrow I will likely do another 50% water change.
At this rate, my 25L of prepared water isn't going to last long at all.
Last edited by kit on Fri 08 Jun, 2012 2:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My white spot treatment journal

Postby kit » Sun 03 Jun, 2012 9:48 pm

Just a quick update.
Ammonia levels have settled down and have been stable over the past few days.

Fish are very well and eating whatever I give them.

I'm still siphoning waste on a daily basis, but now only replenishing the water every 2 or 3 days as the water level gets lower.
This batch of water I am using ASW, I found some remaining Instant Ocean laying around so I thought I would use it. Next batch of water I will go back to using diluted NSW.

It feels like I've been doing this for a long time, but it's only been a week and a half... I also ordered a cheap pH meter from eBay last week; hopefully this arrives soon so I cant use it to quickly determine pH when mixing the hyposalinity water.
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Re: My white spot treatment journal

Postby kit » Fri 08 Jun, 2012 12:13 pm

Not much to update except that I've gotten into a routine now.

On a daily basis I will:
- Feed the fish
- Eat dinner (myself)
- Siphon out all the fish waste on the bottom of tank
- Change the filter sock on the trickle feed to a dry one
- Wash the filter sock I just removed and let dry overnight to be swapped over the next day

Depending on how much water I siphoned out, I will top up the water with 1.009 SG water every 2 - 3 days. I'm trying to be very efficient at siphoning waste so I can I replenish water less frequently.

The process takes up about 10 mins of my time daily, so it's not too bad.
It's only been 2.5 weeks, so another 5.5 to go.

On another note, my $30 ebay pH meter seems to be working well. It arrive in a week and it's much easier (and less wasteful as I often have to test multiple times when buffering water) than using indicator solution. Seems to be quite accurate too.
Last edited by kit on Fri 08 Jun, 2012 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My white spot treatment journal

Postby chromus » Fri 08 Jun, 2012 1:15 pm

Kit, this methodical approach is a great example of how to do it.

Keep up the good work, I know it gets tedious but it's worth the effort.
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Re: My white spot treatment journal

Postby kit » Fri 08 Jun, 2012 2:49 pm

Thanks :)
At the end of the 8 weeks, I won't know what to do with all the spare time!
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Re: My white spot treatment journal

Postby chromus » Fri 08 Jun, 2012 3:02 pm

Kick back and :drink: infront of the tank with a sense of satisfaction. :thumbsup:
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Re: My white spot treatment journal

Postby kit » Fri 08 Jun, 2012 10:49 pm

chromus wrote:Kick back and :drink: infront of the tank with a sense of satisfaction. :thumbsup:

Sounds good :thumbsup:

Here is the pH meter I bought:

Image
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Re: My white spot treatment journal

Postby kit » Fri 29 Jun, 2012 12:31 am

Just a quick update. It's coming up to the 6th week now, so I'm counting down the days until I can reintroduce the fish back into my tank.

I plan to wrap up treatment in week 8 (or maybe a bit longer); so from week 7 I will start to build up salinity in the Hospital tank until it's running full salinity by the end of week 7.

The daily siphoning hasn't really become a chore for me.. it still takes me about 10 mins / day to siphon waste and clean the filter sock. It's become a routine for me.. and I like how I can do all sorts of things with the main tank that I wouldn't normally do if there were fish in there (have rearranged my aquascape countless times, and have introduced a CBS, a BTA and some coral).

Apart from setting pH in my pre mixed water to 8.4, I haven't really performed any pH testing on the HT. I know pH is around 7.8, but it hasn't affected the fish at all.
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Re: My white spot treatment journal

Postby fleurielk » Fri 29 Jun, 2012 7:41 am

This has been really helpful to read. Sounds like your method is working really well. :cheers:
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