• Advertisement
RTAW Advertiser

revitalising Rowaphos

A place to discuss water chemistry and in depth and cutting edge discussions of advanced methodologies and concepts of reef keeping.

Moderators: Moderators, Mod: Advanced Discussion

revitalising Rowaphos

Postby Bigfellani5 » Mon 13 May, 2013 1:45 pm

I have heard you revitalise rowaphos after it is exhausted. Cant seem to find a thread on it here. How successful is doing this?
Bigfellani5
Bicentenary Reefer
 
Posts: 317
Joined: Fri 23 Sep, 2011 2:26 pm
Location: Newcastle

Re: revitalising Rowaphos

Postby cody.sheridan-2008 » Mon 13 May, 2013 2:17 pm

not that I know, once its dead it's dead...
MASS President 2013, 2014
900x620x500 Rimless SPS tank - Pico time!
User avatar
cody.sheridan-2008
Old Sea Dog Reefer
 
Posts: 2639
Images: 0
Joined: Fri 28 Jan, 2011 11:18 am
Location: Waverton, North Sydney, NSW Australia 2060

Re: revitalising Rowaphos

Postby chromus » Mon 13 May, 2013 2:43 pm

There is a chemical process that can do this, but the chemicals involved are caustic I believe, Tone posted a thread on it some time ago.
Did you search RTAW Reefpedia B4 asking your question?

My Tank Journals
8x3x2.5 With Webcam
Tank Monitor (Work in Progress)
My reefs power consumption is offset with solar power
User avatar
chromus
I Was Around When Noah Was a Reefer
MASWA Member
MASWA Member
 
Posts: 19409
Images: 27
Joined: Wed 16 Sep, 2009 10:09 pm
Location: Atwell, Perth, WA

Re: revitalising Rowaphos

Postby Aydee » Mon 13 May, 2013 3:40 pm

Search for:
regenerating GFO
if GFO doesn't work
Regenerating Granular Ferric Oxide.

YMMV. DO AT YOUR OWN RISK! People have had lots of success. But as this is in the "New forum", I urge you to take it easy. Read up on it. If you think you can in the future, maybe put the exhausted rowaphos to the side and then try when you are more confident.

But again. Remember. A mistake will cost you more than the replacement bucket of rowaphos. It'll cost you your livestock.

AD
Aydee
RTAW Veteran Reefer
MASAOG Committee
MASAOG Member
RTAW Moderator
 
Posts: 1996
Joined: Sun 03 Aug, 2008 6:12 pm
Location: Canberra

Re: revitalising Rowaphos

Postby uglyman » Tue 14 May, 2013 4:14 pm

I am currently regenerating my rowaphos.

Here is how I do it.

WARNING THIS INVOLVES A CAUSTIC CHEMICAL WHICH CAN BURN YOU I accept no responsibility for you burning yourself if you don't treat this stuff with caution, read the label on the product when you buy it.


I use sodium hydroxide 98% pure (otherwise known as drain cleaner or caustic soda) you use about 40grams per litre of RO to get 1Mol of mixture and I use about 6 litres to treat about 500grams of rowa. Once you have made your mix you add the rowa to it and leave it soaking for about a week and if you want re-treat it again with a fresh mix for another week, I stir the mix every so often, after treating you should wash the rowa out with plenty of RO at least 10 litres to get rid of the sodium hydroxide and once rinsed it's ready to use again.

You can regenerate the rowaphos as many times as you want but you will be dissolving some of the rowaphos during this procedure so each time there will be a little less rowaphos after each treatment. Also make sure you use as pure as possible sodium hydroxide with NO perfumes or colourings as they can nuke your tank.

:cheers:
Uglyman's 4ft LED lit mixed reef

If your not prepared to be wrong, then you'll never come up with anything original.

Join the Marine Aquarium Society of Victoria today!!
Join MASOV's Facebook Page
uglyman
Old Sea Dog Reefer
RTAW Moderator
MASOV Member Current
 
Posts: 2141
Images: 5
Joined: Thu 21 Dec, 2006 11:17 pm
Location: Pyalong Vic

Re: revitalising Rowaphos

Postby Bigfellani5 » Tue 14 May, 2013 4:56 pm

do you use acid first....I have been doing a lot of reading on this and most recommend an acid bath first?
Bigfellani5
Bicentenary Reefer
 
Posts: 317
Joined: Fri 23 Sep, 2011 2:26 pm
Location: Newcastle

Re: revitalising Rowaphos

Postby uglyman » Tue 14 May, 2013 6:04 pm

I do not use acid first, I have heard of people using vinegar first which is an acid but I have read on Reef central of someone testing the theory of whether using vinegar releases the bound phosphate from the rowa and there was no observable release of phosphate from the rowa using vinegar.
Uglyman's 4ft LED lit mixed reef

If your not prepared to be wrong, then you'll never come up with anything original.

Join the Marine Aquarium Society of Victoria today!!
Join MASOV's Facebook Page
uglyman
Old Sea Dog Reefer
RTAW Moderator
MASOV Member Current
 
Posts: 2141
Images: 5
Joined: Thu 21 Dec, 2006 11:17 pm
Location: Pyalong Vic

Re: revitalising Rowaphos

Postby Tone » Wed 15 May, 2013 1:30 pm

"These are my Principles... if you don't like them, I have others." Groucho Marx.
Reefing since '93.
2000L Reef.


Originator of MASQ
User avatar
Tone
Been Around So Long, I've Seen Evolution
 
Posts: 12378
Joined: Sat 12 Feb, 2005 5:22 pm
Location: BrizVegas

Re: revitalising Rowaphos

Postby Onsan » Fri 24 May, 2013 10:56 pm

A concentrated solution of sodium hydroxide is 50%, it is a saturated solution at this point, you can't get any higher.
In most cases a solution of 5-7% for one hour is all that is required to efficiently displace PO4- and replace with OH-.
Dilute acid is used to remove any calcium/magnesium scale that may have formed on the surface, this can occur due to localised high pH brought on by the release of OH- ions as phosphate is bound. This is less likely to be a problem if the levels of phosphate are moderate and there is good flow through the GFO.
When rinsing the GFO of sodium hydroxide, I recommend using a strainer and pouring demin/RO water through the GFO, sodium hydroxide is heavy, you can use this to your advantage by letting the water drain through and take the NaOH with it in one motion. If you try to rinse the NaOH by filling a bucket and draining it you will use a lot of water as the NaOH will tend to sit at the bottom of the bucket.
MASA President
User avatar
Onsan
Old Sea Dog Reefer
MASRQ Member
 
Posts: 4009
Images: 30
Joined: Sun 01 Nov, 2009 2:25 am
Location: Townsville

Re: revitalising Rowaphos

Postby cody.sheridan-2008 » Sat 25 May, 2013 2:10 am

well this has been a good thread to tag along, thanks for the info guys.
MASS President 2013, 2014
900x620x500 Rimless SPS tank - Pico time!
User avatar
cody.sheridan-2008
Old Sea Dog Reefer
 
Posts: 2639
Images: 0
Joined: Fri 28 Jan, 2011 11:18 am
Location: Waverton, North Sydney, NSW Australia 2060

Re: revitalising Rowaphos

Postby uglyman » Sun 26 May, 2013 1:19 pm

Hey Onsan do you know if titanium oxide (dioxide) can bind Po4 ions as efficiently as ferric oxide?
Uglyman's 4ft LED lit mixed reef

If your not prepared to be wrong, then you'll never come up with anything original.

Join the Marine Aquarium Society of Victoria today!!
Join MASOV's Facebook Page
uglyman
Old Sea Dog Reefer
RTAW Moderator
MASOV Member Current
 
Posts: 2141
Images: 5
Joined: Thu 21 Dec, 2006 11:17 pm
Location: Pyalong Vic

Re: revitalising Rowaphos

Postby Downu » Sun 26 May, 2013 9:56 pm

A concentrated solution of sodium hydroxide is 50%, it is a saturated solution at this point, you can't get any higher.

Umm thats wrong.

I use a caustic soda soda solution that is 99% caustic (not for a tank) but for cleaning equipment in the food industry.

Flake caustic soda is a sodium concentrate. And I think you will find the drain cleaner sold in supermarkets IS 100% flake caustic.

That means it will be pH 13 when mixed @ 1-1 with water.
No dear that fish has been in there for ages.
I blame the power consumption on the teenager.
Time flies when you hit the snooze button.
Downu
RTAW Veteran Reefer
RTAW Registered Business
 
Posts: 1812
Images: 1
Joined: Sat 29 Oct, 2011 6:30 pm
Location: Bentleigh East Melbourne

Re: revitalising Rowaphos

Postby Onsan » Sun 26 May, 2013 11:43 pm

Onsan wrote:A concentrated solution of sodium hydroxide is 50%, it is a saturated solution at this point, you can't get any higher.


A solution is a solute dissolved in a solvent.
In this case, NaOH in H2O.
A solid or an anhydrate as you are referring to is not a solution.
NaOH will not dissolve in water above 50% unless you heat it, even then, once it returns to room temperature it will precipitate out and return to a 50% solution.
NaOH has a solubility of about 110g/100mL. This means, w/w, when expressed as a percentage it equates to 52% ( 110 divided by 210, that is weight of solute divided by the total weight of the solution 110 + 100=210g) (yes i rounded 52% to 50%)
At saturation it will have a molarity of around 27.7M, and a pH = 14-(-log27.7M) = 15.4
Yes, you can have pH below 1 and above 14.

Why did I reference a 50% solution?
Because you can't wash a solid with a solid and it is the easiest way to calculate solution strength for the bucket chemist at home.
Add solid NaOH to water (slowly and carefully - ice is a great idea, heat of dilution can be dangerous) until it reaches saturation at room temperature (until it stops dissolving), it will then be a 50% solution (give or take the bucket chemistry), from there you can dilute that solution with simple math to 5%, from which you can then use to recharge your ferric oxide hydroxide.
MASA President
User avatar
Onsan
Old Sea Dog Reefer
MASRQ Member
 
Posts: 4009
Images: 30
Joined: Sun 01 Nov, 2009 2:25 am
Location: Townsville

Re: revitalising Rowaphos

Postby Onsan » Tue 28 May, 2013 12:51 am

uglyman wrote:Hey Onsan do you know if titanium oxide (dioxide) can bind Po4 ions as efficiently as ferric oxide?

Sorry mate, forgot to reply.
Hadn't heard of it before, had a quick look but the main references I found were related to phosphopeptides, arsenic and nitrate and all seemed to be in the R&D phase.
Sorry, can't help much more than that.
MASA President
User avatar
Onsan
Old Sea Dog Reefer
MASRQ Member
 
Posts: 4009
Images: 30
Joined: Sun 01 Nov, 2009 2:25 am
Location: Townsville

Re: revitalising Rowaphos

Postby Rod the Reefer » Sat 17 Oct, 2015 11:48 am

I get the Diggers brand from the hardware store, it's 98% and it's been fine.

Need to rinse it out pretty thoroughly though.

Rod. :thumbsup:
User avatar
Rod the Reefer
Too Much Time On My Hands Reefer
Welcome Team
MASAOG Member
 
Posts: 6683
Joined: Fri 15 Jul, 2005 1:42 pm
Location: Greenhill, Adelaide, SA

Re: revitalising Rowaphos

Postby CheezotheClown » Thu 12 Nov, 2020 5:00 pm

Digging up an old thread here but as I'm investigating doing this the Advanced Aquarist article link appears dead. The good news is that the article can be found thus: https://reefs.com/magazine/aquarium-che ... hydroxide/

I'll be regenerating Rowaphos. The feedback on the Reefcentral forum indicated that the Rowaphos product is a bit weak when it comes to standing up to the regeneration process. From what I can gather the usual solution is NaOH made up as a 1mol solution. There was some feedback that at this strength the Rowa may disintegrate somewhat so better to maybe use 0.5mol. It appears that as little as 0.1mol should be sufficient.

Anyone with experience/feedback?
User avatar
CheezotheClown
Old Sea Dog Reefer
 
Posts: 3656
Images: 55
Joined: Thu 19 Oct, 2006 6:55 pm
Location: Sydney


Return to Chemistry & Advanced Concepts Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

Societies
MASAOG MASQ MARQ MASS MASOV MASWA

Copyleft 2010 Marine Aquarium Societies of Australia Inc. (www.masa.asn.au)
Reefing the Australian Way is proudly brought to you by MASA Inc.