Page 1 of 18

Davez extreme flow 600L clamfest

PostPosted: Tue 07 Jul, 2009 1:20 pm
by davez104
Don't get too excited, nothing is happening just yet. I'm currently talking with Dennison from Marryannes Aquarium about the tank build. I'm still trying to get my head around exactly how I want this tank built and what I want to be able to do with it. Patience is a virtue they reckon.

System Objectives: Firstly to address many of the shortcomings that have become apparent in my first attempt at reefkeeping. Secondly to provide more room for the current inhabitants. And thirdly, this will be another stepping stone to a much larger system. I have more ideas I would like to explore along the way.

System Type: Mixed Reef.

Display System:

Strike up Date: 14-12-2009

Display Tank: 140cmL x 60cmH x 75cmW

Display Lighting: 2 x 400W Icecap metal halides in LumenBright mini reflectors, 15K XM bulbs :thumbsup:

Stand: Steel, home made, way overbuilt, lol

Hood: as above, but timber

Sump: 4 x 2 X 18 racetrack sump.

Refugium: In sump.

Refugium Lighting: 2 x 150W shopfitter metal halides running 12K AOA bulbs.

Support systems:

System Water: Artificial Salt Water

Display Water circulation: 2 panworld 200PS-MD70R pumps running through closed loop plumbing. 4 outlets per pump, each with an eductor on the end. One Vortech MP40W.

Return Pump: Laguna 9000

Skimmer: Turbo built beckett powered by a Laguna 7500

Evaporation Top Up: Gravity fed auto topup

Chemical Support:

Calcium Addition: Bubble Magus dosing computer
Alkilinity Addition: As above

Other Chemical Maintenance: Epsom salts dosed as needed. Activated carbon and Ecophos run in separate fluidised bed filters. VSV dosing.

Current Water Chemistry:
Salinity / Specific Gravity:



PostPosted: Tue 07 Jul, 2009 1:29 pm
by sydneydrewid
sounds good, cant wait to see pics of this :)

PostPosted: Tue 07 Jul, 2009 1:39 pm
by davez104
Proposed fish list:

Already have:

1 Mimic Tang
1 Banana Wrasse
1 Koran Angel
1 Royal Dottyback

Would like to add - please share your opinions.

I would love to add an Emperor Angel as well, although I realise the tank is already on the small side for these fish once they are fully grown. Realistically the next upgrade is probably 2 years down the track. Again though, I have an 8x2x2 that could be pressed into service as a FO if need be.

Bicolour Blenny - so much character, it needs to be on the list.

There is, no doubt, room for more fish, but I'm undecided as yet.

Proposed inverts

2 cucumbers - already have these.

Emperor Shrimp

Coral Banded shrimp - I've heard they can be aggressive so not sure yet, but they just say "reef" all on their own.

Trochus and Turbo snails

Would dearly love a pair of Harlequin Shrimp.

PostPosted: Tue 07 Jul, 2009 1:50 pm
by kolzy
all these folks with upgrades... geez i'm jealous :roflmao:

so you reckon the dotty'd leave all those shrimp alone? :devil: is it good with your peppys?

PostPosted: Tue 07 Jul, 2009 1:54 pm
by davez104
Not sure. The dotty has never really bothered anything. I haven't seen any of the pepermints for a long time, I'm pretty sure my big clown had a seafood dinner.


PostPosted: Tue 07 Jul, 2009 5:28 pm
by KirTracid
I'm sure the CBS would have no prob having a snap back. They're tough little critters, but only when provoked. As long as fish stay out of their "cave" then you don't have an issue.
They're awesome critters.
Who knows what the koran and emperor would do, especially if they're both in juvenile form.
Sounds like an awesome plan, will be great when it pans out Dave =)

PostPosted: Tue 21 Jul, 2009 10:48 pm
by davez104
Just updated a few detail in regard to water circulation. I'm pretty sold on going with closed loops through the base now. I like the idea of not being able to see any equipment in the display.

I'll be using a very similar setup to Rod the Reefers tank, (hey, if you are going to copy one, it may as well be the best in the country :roflmao: ). It will have a similar amount of flow, but my tank will be two feet shorter, so I reckon I should have no issues with lack of flow.

Here is a rough idea of want I want to do with the sump.


The entry from the display will house the pump for the skimmer. I might look at using filter socks to try and keep debris out of this area. The biggest problem I have with my skimmer at the moment is gunk getting sucked up by the pump and then clogging the beckett injector. It does not take much to reduce the air intake and hence the performance. Apart from that, the skimmer is awesome :thumbsup:

The DSB will be divided into 3 parts so that one part can be pulled out and cleaned or replaced every 12-18 months. I decided to do this due the thinking that DSBs can suffer some problems as they age. I'm not sure if this is true or not, but I will have the ability to keep the sand bed relatively fresh without destroying the diversity that comes with age. That's my theory anyway.

The next section will be a refugium with a bit of live rock and maybe some macro algae.

Then possibly a section for frags with a 150W metal hallide hanging over it. I have to make some measurements and draw up a scale design so I know if I really have room for this bit or not. It's all just a concept at the moment.

The last section of course will house the return pump, auto topoff, heaters, probes etc. I will also make sure there is enough room to fit another pump, as I might look at feeding the entire 7500lph back to the display and getting another pump to feed the chiller and a dedicated frag tank if I go down that route.

Feel free to throw any input you have at me. This is where it counts, in the planning stages.


PostPosted: Tue 21 Jul, 2009 10:51 pm
by PaulG
The emproror shrimp would be an ideal meal for teh dotty back.

I had a royal dottyback in my tank with 2 pepps for a few months.... one day I noticed a gaping hole in one of the pepps & later that day I found teh dottyback tearing inot the other pepp.....

Not to be trusted, especially considering the emporer shrimp are very small.

PostPosted: Tue 21 Jul, 2009 11:55 pm
by davez104
Well, the dottyback might just have to find a new home as well.

The emperors that I saw were fairly large, large enough that I thought they would be safe from a little dottyback. But I guess any fish that thinks it can swallow a shrimp will have a go. Why do shrimp have to be so tasty??


PostPosted: Wed 22 Jul, 2009 7:25 am
by PaulG
The dottyback will tear the shrimp to pieces so it ca fit in its mouth

PostPosted: Wed 22 Jul, 2009 1:05 pm
by StripestheEel
Looking forward to the updates mate :thumbsup:

PostPosted: Wed 22 Jul, 2009 1:22 pm
by davez104
Any thoughts on the sump design? Especially in regard to the DSB. Any thoughts on the area this should cover or should I jst make it as large as possible?

I'll try and get a bit of a 3D drawing done, might better explain what I'm thinking.

PostPosted: Wed 22 Jul, 2009 2:04 pm
by Rod the Reefer
Hey Dave, are you going with sand in the DT or BB?

If you have DSB in the DT it would take the pressure off to be so large in the sump. Maybe give you more room in the sump for frags?

That's what I did anyway.

Rod. :thumbsup:

PostPosted: Wed 22 Jul, 2009 2:21 pm
by davez104
I was going to use sand in the display, but not enough to be useful as a DSB. How deep is the sand in your display Rod? I currently have an average of maybe 3 or 4 cm and find it to cause no problems, although it does get heaped up in places.

I may end up with a few sand sifting critters so figured that would possibly disrupt a DSB, so best off keeping it in the sump.

My hammer corals would probably be happier with some deeper sand to be planted in, so there are pros and cons either way.

More than likely though, the DSB will be in the sump. I will have 8 sq feet of floorspace (4x2) in the sump to play with, so there should be adequate room.


PostPosted: Wed 22 Jul, 2009 2:43 pm
by davez104
Work in progress. This is what I'm thinking so far. The three holes at the rear will be the intakes for the closed loop pumps. I'll put PVC tees on the top and a strainer on each end of the tee in the hope that nothing will be able to become stuck to the inlet. The holes in the four corners will be the outlets for the CL, diagonally opposite outlets hooked to each pump, ie front left and right rear on one pump, this should get a bit of a whirlpool effect going.

The front centre will be the other CL pump and I'm thinking a Y join in locline so that flow can be directed left and right of the outlet.


I'm glad I don't "google sketch" for a living, I would be broke in no time lol

PostPosted: Wed 22 Jul, 2009 6:52 pm
by davez104
This where the sump design is at so far.


PostPosted: Wed 22 Jul, 2009 7:35 pm
by Paddy
Why is the DSB split into three sections? Is this so you can remove one at a time to avoid possible old tank syndrome?

PostPosted: Wed 22 Jul, 2009 7:39 pm
by davez104
That's the idea. I figure if I pull one section out every 12-18 months and replace/clean it, I can constantly have a relatively fresh DSB, while retaining the benefits of an aged one with the other two sections, if that makes sense.

Most seem to think the old tank syndrome is only caused by a poorly set up DSB in the first place. If I never end up replacing any of the sand bed, it doesn't really matter.


PostPosted: Thu 23 Jul, 2009 6:51 pm
by davez104
Another thought I have had is this: instead of having the single outlet for the third closed loop, I could drill four holes at various points and use an oceans motions unit to mix the flow up. It would add a nice bit of randomness to the flow, but where do you draw the line as far as how many holes can be drilled in the base? I don't really want to go any thicker than 15mm for the base, as it's already driving the cost up far enough.


PostPosted: Thu 23 Jul, 2009 7:45 pm
by Rod the Reefer
I had 13 holes drilled into the base of my tank Dave and used 12mm base.

I believe it all comes down to how well the base is supported and how far apart the holes are from each other and how far the holes are from the edge.

Rod. :thumbsup:

PostPosted: Thu 23 Jul, 2009 7:58 pm
by davez104
Yeah, I think you're right. But without going the 4 way OM unit, I allready have 11 holes, 14 if I go with the OM unit. The footprint will be about 140cm x 75cm.

What's the worst that could happen :roflmao: :roflmao:


PostPosted: Fri 24 Jul, 2009 8:33 pm
by davez104
I've had the three Panworld pumps priced, the will come in at a total of $570US + shipping of around $200US. Should be able to land the three pumps here for around $1000AU, not too bad I think.

Just trying to find out some more info and possible sources for the Oceans Motions four way units.


PostPosted: Fri 31 Jul, 2009 4:27 pm
by davez104
Well, this where I'm at so far with the tank plans. I'll only run two pumps for a start, we'll see how that goes. But I'm going for slightly larger pumps than I originally planned. Instead ~4200 LPH, I'm going for the ~6600 LPH model. Hopefully that will be enough to run 3 outlets off each pump, with penductors/flow accelerators. I will probably drill a third intake hole, just in case 3 outlets per pump is too much. I would then be able to go back to two outlets per pump and use the third intake and two spare outlets to plumb in a third pump.

Here is a rough pic. Only thing I have not added is a fourth hole in the wier. I will run dual returns, as I am looking at running 3-4000 lph back to the display, but it will also need to go through the chiller, and that might be a bit much, so I'll split it into two returns.


Just waiting on a bit of feedback from Dennison and I'll order the tank. Still agonising over the pumps, want to be sure I'm headed down the right track as my wallet is currently cowering in the corner!!


PostPosted: Fri 31 Jul, 2009 4:38 pm
by kurt
Looking good dave, alot of planning is going into her.

PostPosted: Fri 31 Jul, 2009 6:19 pm
by Rod the Reefer
Hmm, looks familiar. :pirate:

Rod. :thumbsup:

PostPosted: Fri 31 Jul, 2009 6:27 pm
by davez104
Sorry Rod, I'm trying to think of ways to make it different, but the flow you've got out of your baby with no visible hardware is too good to ignore.

I'm not sure if I've gone too far with up sizing the pumps, time will tell. Should make a good washing machine if the reef doesn't like it.


PostPosted: Tue 04 Aug, 2009 3:20 pm
by davez104
Rethinking things as we go along. Drives me nuts.

I've ordered the pumps today. I'm getting the Panworld 200 size pressure pumps, two of. They are rated at 1750 gallons per hour, I think that's six thousand something litres per hour. I'll be running each pump through 4 x 3/4" penductors. If that turns out to be too restrictive, I will open them up to 1" penductors and drop back to three per pump. I will then have the option of running a 3rd pump.

I'm not going for a clockwise/anticlockwise gyre flow any more. I will stagger the pumps though, with no pumps for maybe 3 hours, pump 1 for 7 hours, pump 1 & 2 for 7 hours, pump 2 for 7 hours. The net effect should be an anticlockwise gyre, but with a fair amount of turbulance mixed in. I can fine tune it and adjust angles etc once it's all plumbed. I just want to make sure I have sufficient flow capacity right from the start. With the holes I have planned and the increase of flow through the penductors, if I add another pump, I should have the capability of around 80,000 lph or 130 times flow.


Just about ready to order the tank and sump as well. Hopefully Dennison will be able to provide a pic or two as we go along. Will probably end up driving to Brisbane to pick it up when it's ready, ROADTRIP!! Would be good to check out a few members tanks on the way, but I'll post something up when the time gets closer.

Next will be to find somewhere to order all of the plumbing from.

Exciting times ahead.


PostPosted: Tue 04 Aug, 2009 6:20 pm
by StripestheEel
Gotta love the swiss cheese tanks!

Looking forward to it mate, can't go past Dennison IMO

PostPosted: Mon 10 Aug, 2009 3:26 pm
by davez104
Final sump design. Foregoing the crazy ideas for something more traditional. From top left.

Drain -> Fuge with live rock -> DSB ->Macro -> Frags -> Return.


As soon as I can get Dennison to answer the phone, I'll be paying the deposit to get things happening.

Are you there Dennison, DENNISON!!!


PostPosted: Mon 10 Aug, 2009 11:23 pm
by sydneydrewid
looking great, whats the sump dimensions??